Prop. 8 Hate Redux

I read a news article that basically stated that the "Gay Movement" wants to "reconcile" with the Mormons (the LDS Church). I have to wonder, "reconcile?" I mean, that would indicate that the Mormons have done something wrong. I am still trying to figure that one out...so bear with me here.

My previous Blog Post on this issue, EXPOSED: Anti-Prop. 8 Hatred against the Mormons, explored the aftermath directed at the Mormon Church by the "Gay Movement". Mostly from a web site called, Mormons Stole Our Rights.

More recently, I wrote about the The Price of Prop 8. Outlining the Heritage Foundation's opinion and fact finding about the animosity between the "Gay Movement" and the Mormon Church.

Today, I have to address this petition that the "Gay Movement" has out on LDS Apopogy...

They open the petition with a quote by Stephen R. Covey;

“It takes a great deal of character strength to apologize … A person must possess himself and have a deep sense of security in fundamental principles and values in order to genuinely apologize.”

I find it ironic, just a little, that they quote an LDS Speaker who says, "A person must possess himself and have a deep sense of security in fundamental principles and values".
The LDS, in general, have a deep sense of security in fundamental principles and values, they are the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A Set of Teachings and Beliefs about the nature of God and our Relationship with Him. These teachings and beliefs also include a few codes of conduct that govern our lives: the Law of Chastity, the Word of Wisdom, and other items are the Values we hold sacred.
The "Gay Movement's" use of this quote is supposed to, somehow, excuse the fact that their behavior violates several of these "fundamental principles and values"?

They use another quote by Marilynne Robinson (Home, 2008);

“There is a saying that to understand is to forgive, but that is an error, ... You must forgive in order to understand. Until you forgive you defend yourself against the possibility of understanding.”

Then they get to the meat and potatoes of the petition, I will quote it and comment on it as we go:

We the undersigned, in the spirit of love and peace, earnestly seek to create a climate for reconciliation between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and gays and lesbians who have been affected by the policies, practices and politics of the Church.

According to the WordNet at Princeton, reconciliation is "the re-establishing of cordial relations".
The same source says cordial is:
"affable: diffusing warmth and friendliness", "politely warm and friendly", and "sincerely or intensely felt".

The LDS Church has always had an "open door policy". You are welcome and invited to attend Church, Classes, and Functions (as long as you follow the codes of conduct), and even become a member (so long as you comply with the requirements for membership). The Church has never forbid or evicted anyone except on that person's decision to not follow the code of conduct, or their failure to comply with the requirements of membership... This is a choice of the Individual, not the Church.
The Church provides a loving and supportive environment for people to learn and become like God. Only when people sin is there conflict, and even then, only when they refuse to repent of their sins. The Church is all about the GOOD in life (and after this life).

There is another couple meanings to the word, "reconciliation" is also "getting two things to correspond."
And WordNet says "correspond" is to "match: be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics" or to "equate: be equivalent or parallel, in mathematics."

If they are using this definition of the word, then they are actually asking for us to become similar...or to become compatible...
Unfortunately, as I explained above, this isn't possible. It isn't Man's job to dictate the requirements of God. God set the requirement, it is listed out in the Bible and other Scriptures, and it is for us to follow. Homosexuality is what sets us apart. Since the Church cannot change God's law, the Church cannot become LIKE the "Gay Movement", but that doesn't preclude the "Gay Movement" from becoming LIKE the Church...it would mean they need to look to themselves for the Change necessary. Better yet, that "climate for reconciliation" has existed for years, it is called the "First Principles and Ordinances of the Gospel", and it leads to Repentance, Forgiveness, and Remission of Sin.

We recognize that issues surrounding sexuality and gender orientation are complex;

I would have to disagree with this statement. While there may be something biological or physiological about SSA (Same Sex Attraction), the act of Homosexuality is a CHOICE and violates the Biological Imperative of sex. Homosexuality, like abstinence or celibacy, and heterosexuality is a choice.

... We believe that people of good will may have differing views about homosexuality, while maintaining amicable relationships.

Yes, the LDS have differing views, but that doesn't seem to be enough, not even for this faction of the "Gay Movement" who is asking for "reconciliation" or for the LDS Church to accept Homosexuality. That isn't "reconciliation", it is "capitulation".

True reconciliation requires that parties on both sides of this issue be willing to honestly examine their attitudes, behaviors (including past behaviors), policies and practices—and be open to understanding, forgiveness (both asking for and accepting), and apology.

I am curious what attitudes and behaviors they are referring to here. As to the policies and practices, we have already explained, these are DOCTRINES and are not subject to negotiation.

For individuals who have suffered or been forced to watch a loved one suffer mistreatment, misunderstanding, or demonization as a consequence of the LDS church's official policies, actions, and teachings regarding sexual orientation ...

Ah, here we are. Remember that I said they want "capitulation" not "reconciliation"? Remember the definition of "correspond" is to "match" or to "equate"...
They want the LDS Church to stop believing that Homosexuality is a sin. They want the LDS Church to change the Laws of God.
This is not possible. If the Church reverses the position of God on this issue, then the Church becomes false.

For Church leaders, reconciliation requires examining ways in which official statements, rhetoric, policy and practice have been injurious to gays and lesbians and their families and friends

How about the behavior of the "Gay Movement" and how it has affected the Church, it's Leaders and it's members?
We have already discussed how the LDS Cannot change the policy of God, so what more do they want?

have caused unnecessary pain and suffering, rejection, psychological and spiritual damage and even death.

Paul talked about this, he called it the "wages of sin". Nephi said, "wickedness never was happiness". These issues are all the direct result of people's failure to follow the Plan of God, nothing more. With one exception, "rejection". This is wrong to reject someone. We reject the sin, not the sinner. The Sinner is always welcome to come to the Lord.

This means scrupulously acknowledging such practices as “reorientation”-- reparative, revulsion, and shock-therapies

The "same old thing" right from the pages of the falsification play-book. "Shock-therapies" have never been used or endorsed by the LDS Church.

such teachings as homosexuality being an evil perversion, a condition that is chosen and changeable and one that can be overcome through fasting, prayer, sacrifice and heterosexual marriage

Ah, but it is a choice. I can feel attracted to a woman other than my wife. Using the logic here, I should be able to act on that attraction, and expect the Church to change it's position that Adultery is a sin. Then I should be able to ask the Church for "reconciliation" (aka "capitulation") and try to make my behavior "acceptable", because I hate being told I am a sinner.

and using scriptures that are taken out of context, mistranslated or that are highly selective to condemn homosexuality.

Something that might not be known about me. I speak Greek.
Here are the scriptures that they are claiming are "taken out of context" or "mistranslated"...
Levit. 18:22:

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Levit. 20:13:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Matt. 15:10-20:

"...For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..."

In the Greek (the original language of most of the New Testament) the word for "fornications" is "pornia" which means "any form of illicit sexual behavior".

Since the Jews believed that Homosexuality was a sin, punishable by death, it falls squarely into this definition. He was not speaking ONLY of Homosexuality, but ALSO of Homosexuality.

And when Paul, in the Epistle to the Romans, says:
Romans 1:21-32:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools ... Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves ... For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. ... God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death ..."

Note here, Paul mentions "lusts of their own hearts", "dishonour their own bodies between themselves", "vile affections", "men working that which is unseemly", "fornication", "without natural affection"...

He doesn't stop at "fornication" or "pornia", but he is very specific and says it in several different ways, the most clear of which is, "for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another"

Are these the "selective" scriptures that they mention in the Petition? So the question becomes, why doesn't the "Gay Movement" show us the scriptures that support their position that Homosexuality is not a sin, or where God is "ok" with Homosexuality. Because as it stands right now, God isn't ok with it:
Alma 45:16:

... for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

They finish up with:

It also means to repudiate publicly circulated articles, essays, books, speeches, and conference addresses that have stereotyped or demonized gays and lesbians.

More demands for capitulation. "Denounce what you believe"...

We believe that the time is right for healing over this issue to begin, for those on both sides to manifest forgiveness, magnanimity, and especially, love. ...

They don't want "healing" they want "justification". They want to feel that their behavior is acceptable. They want to have the LDS Church say, "Its ok"...
Sorry, as I have clearly shown, the Church cannot do that.

As I said in the beginning, there are a couple more meanings to the word "reconciliation", and the final one is theological,

Reconciliation, a theological term, is an element of salvation that refers to the results of atonement. Reconciliation as a theological concept describes the end of the estrangement, caused by sin, between God and humanity. John Calvin describes reconciliation as the peace between humanity and God that results from the expiation of our sin and the propitiation of God's wrath. Evangelical theologian Philip Ryken describes reconciliation in this way; "It is part of the message of Salvation that brings us back together with God. ... God is the author, Christ is the agent and we are the ambassadors of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5)." Although it's only used five times in the Pauline corpus (Romans 5:10-11, 11:15, 2 Corinthians 5:18-20, Ephesians 2:14-17 and Colossians 1:19-22) it is an essential term, describing the "substance" of the gospel and salvation. Ralph Martin writing in the Dictionary of Paul and his Letters, suggests reconciliation is at the center of Pauline theology. Stanley Porter writing in the same volume suggests a conceptual link between the reconciliation Greek word group katallage (or katallasso) and the Hebrew word shalom, generally translated as 'peace.'

In other words, the "Gay Movement" should be less concerned about "reconciling" with the LDS Church, and more concerned with Reconciliation with God.

D&C 1:38:

"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

So when we get right down to it, they don't want "reconciliation" they want "capitulation", they don't want us to believe what we believe, they want us to deny what is the truth and agree with their sinful practices and they want to feel better about themselves even though they live in sin. That is the short of it.